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	<title>Comments on: Bad logic: speed limits</title>
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	<link>http://www.amerika.org/2009/social-reality/bad-logic-speed-limits/</link>
	<description>What is falling, push.</description>
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		<title>By: anna</title>
		<link>http://www.amerika.org/2009/social-reality/bad-logic-speed-limits/comment-page-1/#comment-1417</link>
		<dc:creator>anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 01:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amerika.org/?p=2678#comment-1417</guid>
		<description>I disagree that they&#039;re too complicated.  It&#039;s simple: people who want to go slower drive in the right lanes, people who want to go fast drive in the left lanes.  What I think is complicated is the different top speed limits everywhere you go.  Let&#039;s say you make that two-day long trek from Denver to Chicago.  There are parts in Nebraska where you switch from 55 to 75 to 65 to 75 and so on for about an hour and a half.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree that they&#8217;re too complicated.  It&#8217;s simple: people who want to go slower drive in the right lanes, people who want to go fast drive in the left lanes.  What I think is complicated is the different top speed limits everywhere you go.  Let&#8217;s say you make that two-day long trek from Denver to Chicago.  There are parts in Nebraska where you switch from 55 to 75 to 65 to 75 and so on for about an hour and a half.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeG</title>
		<link>http://www.amerika.org/2009/social-reality/bad-logic-speed-limits/comment-page-1/#comment-849</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amerika.org/?p=2678#comment-849</guid>
		<description>All these years of regulation have got us where? How about removing signs and driving guides that people rely on which will then force people to be more aware and use their brain. Because there are no cues on how fast you can go people end up driving slower.

Some European cities have done this with excellent results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All these years of regulation have got us where? How about removing signs and driving guides that people rely on which will then force people to be more aware and use their brain. Because there are no cues on how fast you can go people end up driving slower.</p>
<p>Some European cities have done this with excellent results.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://www.amerika.org/2009/social-reality/bad-logic-speed-limits/comment-page-1/#comment-688</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 00:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amerika.org/?p=2678#comment-688</guid>
		<description>The speed limits are specifically designed to increase profits of insurance companies.  Less catastrophic accidents mean lower payouts, lower payouts mean greater profits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The speed limits are specifically designed to increase profits of insurance companies.  Less catastrophic accidents mean lower payouts, lower payouts mean greater profits.</p>
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		<title>By: josh</title>
		<link>http://www.amerika.org/2009/social-reality/bad-logic-speed-limits/comment-page-1/#comment-677</link>
		<dc:creator>josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 08:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amerika.org/?p=2678#comment-677</guid>
		<description>it&#039;s a nice argument, but you ignore crucial details.  current speed limits are rarely set out of safety&#039;s concern, but out of consideration for monetary efficiency.  the yellow suggested speed limits around turns and the like are exactly what you describe - a reasonable &quot;hey you might wanna slow down up here.&quot;

but the posting of, say, a 60 or 70mph speed limit is because that&#039;s the range where most standard motors achieve the greatest mpg.  nationalized speed limits achieved their widest distribution decades ago when gas was actually scarce in the US, and people would literally wait in line for hours at the gas station.  not because there were so many people, but because gas was so scarce.  ask your parents if you don&#039;t already know.

considering that gasoline availability is dependent on active pursuit by american public policy, it is reasonable that its use be mandated to some degree of efficiency.  the failing is found, as mentioned, in SUV&#039;s and the like, but in time i imagine that problem will be addressed.

note: i drive fast, and am not a fan of speed limits, but their presence is legitimate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it&#8217;s a nice argument, but you ignore crucial details.  current speed limits are rarely set out of safety&#8217;s concern, but out of consideration for monetary efficiency.  the yellow suggested speed limits around turns and the like are exactly what you describe &#8211; a reasonable &#8220;hey you might wanna slow down up here.&#8221;</p>
<p>but the posting of, say, a 60 or 70mph speed limit is because that&#8217;s the range where most standard motors achieve the greatest mpg.  nationalized speed limits achieved their widest distribution decades ago when gas was actually scarce in the US, and people would literally wait in line for hours at the gas station.  not because there were so many people, but because gas was so scarce.  ask your parents if you don&#8217;t already know.</p>
<p>considering that gasoline availability is dependent on active pursuit by american public policy, it is reasonable that its use be mandated to some degree of efficiency.  the failing is found, as mentioned, in SUV&#8217;s and the like, but in time i imagine that problem will be addressed.</p>
<p>note: i drive fast, and am not a fan of speed limits, but their presence is legitimate.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.amerika.org/2009/social-reality/bad-logic-speed-limits/comment-page-1/#comment-676</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amerika.org/?p=2678#comment-676</guid>
		<description>The problem in your reasoning is simple... Psychology. 

The vast majority of drivers think they are &quot;better than average&quot; drivers. The people you see driving like complete idiots, barely avoiding accidents? They think they are good drivers. They might even think they are great drivers. 

So, the only way to truly set speedlimits would be to have widescale proficiency tests where every driver every few years is tested for their skill in driving and then got a personal speedlimit.... which I think would be rather amazingly expensive, not to mention most people would still blow it off thinking they were a bit off that day or that the test is flawed. 

As much as I like the idea of no speedrestrictions, it is just never going to happen. I&#039;d suggest you aim your thinkingcap in the direction of solving the problems you mentioned instead... It makes lawbreakers out of us? Why? Because we speed? Right, so find a way to make us stop speeding. 

I say stopping speeding is fairly simple, just build cars unable to speed. A drive by wire system (Electronic control rather than direct) can easily be built to limit the top speed to certain limits. Rather than to set these limits arbitrarily high, like car companies tend to, just set them at freeway speeds. You&#039;re not legally allowed to go faster, so problem solved. 

Put a hefty fine or loss of license on removing the block on a stree-legal car outside of set racing areas. In races professionals can stand by to remove and then reinstate the block. Side benefits? Adjustable top speeds... set a transmitter in the city limit signs, and any car passing by the signs suddenly cant go at freeway speeds anymore. Emergency vehicles need to pass? Zap, all cars infront of them suddenly slow down, providing plenty of incentive to get out of the way so they can get back to their regular speeds. 

But of course, human psychology... again not a possibility. While it would be the logical thing to do, we as a race do not enjoy having our lawbreaking capabilities taken away from us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem in your reasoning is simple&#8230; Psychology. </p>
<p>The vast majority of drivers think they are &#8220;better than average&#8221; drivers. The people you see driving like complete idiots, barely avoiding accidents? They think they are good drivers. They might even think they are great drivers. </p>
<p>So, the only way to truly set speedlimits would be to have widescale proficiency tests where every driver every few years is tested for their skill in driving and then got a personal speedlimit&#8230;. which I think would be rather amazingly expensive, not to mention most people would still blow it off thinking they were a bit off that day or that the test is flawed. </p>
<p>As much as I like the idea of no speedrestrictions, it is just never going to happen. I&#8217;d suggest you aim your thinkingcap in the direction of solving the problems you mentioned instead&#8230; It makes lawbreakers out of us? Why? Because we speed? Right, so find a way to make us stop speeding. </p>
<p>I say stopping speeding is fairly simple, just build cars unable to speed. A drive by wire system (Electronic control rather than direct) can easily be built to limit the top speed to certain limits. Rather than to set these limits arbitrarily high, like car companies tend to, just set them at freeway speeds. You&#8217;re not legally allowed to go faster, so problem solved. </p>
<p>Put a hefty fine or loss of license on removing the block on a stree-legal car outside of set racing areas. In races professionals can stand by to remove and then reinstate the block. Side benefits? Adjustable top speeds&#8230; set a transmitter in the city limit signs, and any car passing by the signs suddenly cant go at freeway speeds anymore. Emergency vehicles need to pass? Zap, all cars infront of them suddenly slow down, providing plenty of incentive to get out of the way so they can get back to their regular speeds. </p>
<p>But of course, human psychology&#8230; again not a possibility. While it would be the logical thing to do, we as a race do not enjoy having our lawbreaking capabilities taken away from us.</p>
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		<title>By: dalekaup</title>
		<link>http://www.amerika.org/2009/social-reality/bad-logic-speed-limits/comment-page-1/#comment-675</link>
		<dc:creator>dalekaup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amerika.org/?p=2678#comment-675</guid>
		<description>Heavier vehicles should have lower speed limits.  They are more prone to lose control, take longer to stop and consume a disproportionate amount of fuel.  Our consumption and production of fuel is fairly finely balanced with a demand exceeding supply by less than 10%.  If we could bring demand in line with supply by reducing consumption gas and diesel would be cheaper for everyone.

Going from 12 MPG to 15.7 saves more gallons of fuel than going from 50 MPG to 1000 MPG over the same distance.  Do the math.  

MPG and CAFE standards are frauds perpetuating over consumption and leading to too-small cars being built to justify Expeditions and Suburbans. This only leads to the perception that saving gas is dangerous since clearly a Geo Metro will not survive a crash with a Expedition.  However if more people drove middle-of-the-road cars (bad imagery I know) such as Malibus, Maximas and Tauruses or even RAV4&#039;s, Caravans and Sorento&#039;s and the like we&#039;d all be buying gas for $1.25 and safe as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heavier vehicles should have lower speed limits.  They are more prone to lose control, take longer to stop and consume a disproportionate amount of fuel.  Our consumption and production of fuel is fairly finely balanced with a demand exceeding supply by less than 10%.  If we could bring demand in line with supply by reducing consumption gas and diesel would be cheaper for everyone.</p>
<p>Going from 12 MPG to 15.7 saves more gallons of fuel than going from 50 MPG to 1000 MPG over the same distance.  Do the math.  </p>
<p>MPG and CAFE standards are frauds perpetuating over consumption and leading to too-small cars being built to justify Expeditions and Suburbans. This only leads to the perception that saving gas is dangerous since clearly a Geo Metro will not survive a crash with a Expedition.  However if more people drove middle-of-the-road cars (bad imagery I know) such as Malibus, Maximas and Tauruses or even RAV4&#8217;s, Caravans and Sorento&#8217;s and the like we&#8217;d all be buying gas for $1.25 and safe as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Sangster</title>
		<link>http://www.amerika.org/2009/social-reality/bad-logic-speed-limits/comment-page-1/#comment-673</link>
		<dc:creator>Sangster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amerika.org/?p=2678#comment-673</guid>
		<description>Personally, when I see a speed limit sign it acts as a rating scale of the difficulty of the road. If I have never driven on a particular road before and see that the speed limit is 55, I know there aren&#039;t gonna be any sudden hairpin turns. So I can speed. But if the speed limit is 15, it tells me that the road may be</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, when I see a speed limit sign it acts as a rating scale of the difficulty of the road. If I have never driven on a particular road before and see that the speed limit is 55, I know there aren&#8217;t gonna be any sudden hairpin turns. So I can speed. But if the speed limit is 15, it tells me that the road may be</p>
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		<title>By: P.Atmgroin</title>
		<link>http://www.amerika.org/2009/social-reality/bad-logic-speed-limits/comment-page-1/#comment-672</link>
		<dc:creator>P.Atmgroin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amerika.org/?p=2678#comment-672</guid>
		<description>nice contribution. Your argument was well thought out and it shows that you genuinely considered all of the main points of his article and carefully carved an argument against it. I applaud you sir. Well played.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nice contribution. Your argument was well thought out and it shows that you genuinely considered all of the main points of his article and carefully carved an argument against it. I applaud you sir. Well played.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.amerika.org/2009/social-reality/bad-logic-speed-limits/comment-page-1/#comment-670</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amerika.org/?p=2678#comment-670</guid>
		<description>Many people say the speed limits are too low, but how do they know? By saying that, they&#039;re saying that they know more about it than whoever sets them. Maybe they do, but a lot of people are bad drivers, and don&#039;t. Saying you aren&#039;t a bad driver is arrogant. Many people are terrible drivers but almost everyone thinks they are better than average. Drivers are known to act irrationally, if they didn&#039;t, they wouldn&#039;t tailgate, and can&#039; be trusted to decide on a sensible speed in each situation. We need o make the penalties for speeding higher, so ha people just can&#039;t afford to do i.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many people say the speed limits are too low, but how do they know? By saying that, they&#8217;re saying that they know more about it than whoever sets them. Maybe they do, but a lot of people are bad drivers, and don&#8217;t. Saying you aren&#8217;t a bad driver is arrogant. Many people are terrible drivers but almost everyone thinks they are better than average. Drivers are known to act irrationally, if they didn&#8217;t, they wouldn&#8217;t tailgate, and can&#8217; be trusted to decide on a sensible speed in each situation. We need o make the penalties for speeding higher, so ha people just can&#8217;t afford to do i.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Fnortner</title>
		<link>http://www.amerika.org/2009/social-reality/bad-logic-speed-limits/comment-page-1/#comment-665</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Fnortner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amerika.org/?p=2678#comment-665</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s another thought. Because our traffic laws are an outgrowth of the fear of automobiles in an age of horses and buggies, and because collisions are considered mistakes rather than deliberate acts, perhaps now after more than a hundred years it&#039;s time to rethink these two bases.

I propose two new principles: One, no traffic law should define as an offense conduct that does not directly cause property damage or personal injury (other than regulatory items such as right of way and lane usage standards). This would serve to eliminate all fear-based offenses such as reckless driving, speeding, drunk driving, driving too fast for conditions, and so forth.

Two, collisions should be considered the criminal responsibility of the driver. This would shift the burden of accountability from the tort system to the criminal justice system, no longer allowing collisions to be &quot;accidents&quot; that just happened, but designating them as acts under the lawful accountability of the driver. We could have battery by automobile, vandalism by automobile, homicide by automobile, and the like as a result of collisions. Drivers would be cited by law enforcement personnel on the scene based on their investigations. No more &quot;following too close&quot; tickets for $125, but criminal charges for vandalism and battery.

For those reading this who think that no reckless driving or drunk driving laws would create a wild West environment on our roads, consider the second part of my proposal where the resulting collision results in criminal penalties including jail time. If we establish true accountability for reckless behavior: you break my car or hurt me, you go to jail--then people will begin to drive with more care. I believe insurance costs and insurance premiums would go down also.

Today we just threaten, scold, and fine people for behaviors that are only obliquely related to the problems we want to eliminate: property damage, personal injury, and death. By penalizing those three things, directly and harshly, we can gain control over them. If you haven&#039;t noticed, the highway death toll has remained over 40,000 per year for decades in spite of safety measures and equipment, police enforcement practices, new laws and higher fines, MADD campaigns, insurance rate increases, and all manner of good intentions. It&#039;s time we did something different, and I believe this is it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s another thought. Because our traffic laws are an outgrowth of the fear of automobiles in an age of horses and buggies, and because collisions are considered mistakes rather than deliberate acts, perhaps now after more than a hundred years it&#8217;s time to rethink these two bases.</p>
<p>I propose two new principles: One, no traffic law should define as an offense conduct that does not directly cause property damage or personal injury (other than regulatory items such as right of way and lane usage standards). This would serve to eliminate all fear-based offenses such as reckless driving, speeding, drunk driving, driving too fast for conditions, and so forth.</p>
<p>Two, collisions should be considered the criminal responsibility of the driver. This would shift the burden of accountability from the tort system to the criminal justice system, no longer allowing collisions to be &#8220;accidents&#8221; that just happened, but designating them as acts under the lawful accountability of the driver. We could have battery by automobile, vandalism by automobile, homicide by automobile, and the like as a result of collisions. Drivers would be cited by law enforcement personnel on the scene based on their investigations. No more &#8220;following too close&#8221; tickets for $125, but criminal charges for vandalism and battery.</p>
<p>For those reading this who think that no reckless driving or drunk driving laws would create a wild West environment on our roads, consider the second part of my proposal where the resulting collision results in criminal penalties including jail time. If we establish true accountability for reckless behavior: you break my car or hurt me, you go to jail&#8211;then people will begin to drive with more care. I believe insurance costs and insurance premiums would go down also.</p>
<p>Today we just threaten, scold, and fine people for behaviors that are only obliquely related to the problems we want to eliminate: property damage, personal injury, and death. By penalizing those three things, directly and harshly, we can gain control over them. If you haven&#8217;t noticed, the highway death toll has remained over 40,000 per year for decades in spite of safety measures and equipment, police enforcement practices, new laws and higher fines, MADD campaigns, insurance rate increases, and all manner of good intentions. It&#8217;s time we did something different, and I believe this is it.</p>
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